Light ROM 4/Light ROM 4 - Disc 1.iso/text/net_news/1996/041996.doc/text0002.txt

Text File | 1996-04-29 | 70.6 KB | 1,613 lines

<<I just got back from a one day whirlwind NAB visit and I can't
believe out
of the over 300 posts I've read (alot of reports from NAB included) no
one
has mentioned...

MAP MOTION!!!

Jason was demoing this AMAZING 3rd party plugin. It is not a part of
LW 5.0
and it is not shipping yet. In fact they weren't even spilling who is
doing it.
BUT IT"S KILLER!!

Picture this:
You have a car with wheels. You tell this plugin the size of your
wheels and
that they rotate 360 degrees. They are parented to the car. Move and
keyframe your car. The wheels move as they should. As the car starts
to move
so do the wheels. When the car slows down so do the wheels. If it
turns a
corner, the inside wheels spin less than the outer ones. Cool huh?
Wait...there's more...

Now apply this to a walk cycle. IOW you tell it how the leg should
move and
then move the body. That's it, the legs do thier thing.

What's that? Your character isn't a biped?... It's got more legs?
NO PROBLEM!! They showed a demo of a bug with lots o'legs!!
Drag the bug around and the little bugger walks. This is the coolest
thing
since ...MetaNURBS :)>>



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From: [e-mail] (Stig Mathiassen)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win3x,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win95,alt.2600,alt.bi
Subject: Re: WIN95 better than OS/2 PLEASE!!!!
Date: 21 Apr 1996 14:52:50 GMT
Organization: SN Internett
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In message <[e-mail]> - Robert Pumer <[e-mail]> writes:
:
:me wrote:
:>
:> In article <[e-mail]>,
:>         [e-mail] (Millenium) writes:
:>
:> >The GUI is not very user friendly, and I
:> >just wasn't impressed with it over all. I will stick with Micro$oft -
:> >any one else out there have OS/2 horror stories?

Try installing Corel 5.0 from cdrom in an WinOS2 fullscreen, while
installing a dos program from A: while ftp from inet..all at the
same time thats realy a horror story.
Does it need any comments...

Stig Mathiassen
"Rember yeasterday, live today
and dream about tomorrow"


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From: [e-mail] (Russ Pease)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Has AMIGA been sold again?
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:57:51 GMT
Organization: LDS iAmerica
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David Forbus <[e-mail]> wrote:

>What's this about AMIGA Technologies being sold to an american cable box
>manufacturer? Does anybody care? Does it matter?

>DLF

Yes the Amiga has been sold again.  The deal is not yet completed, I
believe the companies name is Vistek, whatever it is these are the
guys who are doing the Amiga Chipset set-top boxes.

I talked to the salesmanger for the Amiga product line at NAB.  Since
the sale was just coming down, not much was in stone, but they are
going to be building a Power PC Amiga (Motorola is paying for the
development costs).  They would also like to build an Alpha version,
but have not yet decided on this.

They are hopeing to release a low cost 4000 type system.  hopefully
around $1500.  They do not plan to sell the Amiga in mainstream
markets.

NewTek of course is quite excited about a steady supply of low cost
machines.  NewTek looked like the Lightwave company at NAB this year,
not the Toaster company.  Believe it or not there are people still
buying toasters.  Where else can you get all of this video power for
less than $6000?


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From: [e-mail] (Johan Otterstrom)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Warning: DPS-(Digital Processing Systems Inc.)
Date: 21 Apr 96 17:27:41 -500
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>>    Before you run out and purchase a PAR (Personal Animation Recorder) or
>>the new perception card from DPS, here are a few things you should know
>>about  the company .
>>
>>(1) Customer service is horrible. We have spent 2 days trying to get
>>    answers regarding the buggy Win-NT drivers. I have left messages via
>>     voice mail and E-mail and have not recieved any return calls or
>>    replies. We were told to call the USA tech support which told us to try
>>    the Canada support line and they gave me a name back at the USA office.
>>    Ping pong! Both never solved the problem.

>       I bought a PVR board and have had the EXACT OPPISITE experience.  I
had
>a problem with something, called tech support and they called me back when I
>asked them to.  You should ask for a guy by the name of Phil Horney.  His
>email is [e-mail].  He helped me out a lot.

Well this guy must have had his face slapped many times when introducing
himself! ;-)



        Örebro Videoreklam - We sell Amiga/Draco products!
        --------------------------------------------------
          Videoproductions - 3D graphics - Renderservice
       Nonlinear editing - Vlab Motion/Toccata/Draco/Amiga
     Tel/fax [phone] - [e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (Johan Otterstrom)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Lightwave for Mac
Date: 21 Apr 96 17:34:23 -500
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>In article <olsonjj-1804962218220001@129.219.72.219>, [e-mail]
>(John Olson) wrote:

>> Please dont all attack at once:
>>
>> What do you all think about lightwave coming for the Mac?  Do you find it
>> as a good or bad thing?  Will it help to bring studios together that use
>> Macs for multimedia and/or pre-press?
>>
>> just curious

As an Amiga owner I can't help wondering if you'll have to run ShapeShifter to
be able to run LightWave under CybergraphX! Face it the regular Amiga display
lags behind. I can't figure out why LightWave only supports the old/slow
Picasso II board when the new standard is more or less set to be CybergraphX.
Supports 8 graphics cards already. The biggest hurdle is in Layout, which is
painfully slow when you force it to display on a graphics card. And the fact
that animation preview doesn't work at all makes LightWave quite useless.

Will LW5.0 support CybergraphX/Draco???




        Örebro Videoreklam - We sell Amiga/Draco products!
        --------------------------------------------------
          Videoproductions - 3D graphics - Renderservice
       Nonlinear editing - Vlab Motion/Toccata/Draco/Amiga
     Tel/fax [phone] - [e-mail]


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From: [e-mail] (Johan Otterstrom)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 Ships Tomorrow/ALPHA free? NOT
Date: 21 Apr 96 17:39:19 -500
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>-----------
>That's funny I ordered my ALPHA upgrade today and the only thing that
>was free was the T-SHIRT.

well you can't have it all, can you... ;)
>-----------

>If you paid $1995 for the Alpha version and they are charging full price
>for the upgrade, it's pretty offensive to me.

Does LW5.0 (amiga version) support CybergraphX fully? Has any one heard of a
Draco version of LW? The 233Mhz Dec Alpha board for Draco will ship this
summer and I heard it will be quite inexpensive. Could be a killer LW station.



        Örebro Videoreklam - We sell Amiga/Draco products!
        --------------------------------------------------
          Videoproductions - 3D graphics - Renderservice
       Nonlinear editing - Vlab Motion/Toccata/Draco/Amiga
     Tel/fax [phone] - [e-mail]


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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: OpenGL work in Win3.1 too?
Date: 21 Apr 1996 16:43:33 GMT
Organization: American Information Systems, Inc.
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Ok, possibly a stupid question...

Does OpenGL work in Win3.1, or is this
a strictly 32bit evironment thing?

If it will work in Win3.1, do I need a special
openGL.dll or something similiar.

Any help would be appreciated.


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From: [e-mail] (JKrause357)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: WTB:AMIGA 4000t HI-DENSITY FLOPPY DRIVE
Date: 21 Apr 1996 12:59:57 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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PLEASE E-MAIL PRICE/INFO

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From: Jeff Jasper <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:50:44 -0400
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for Arts and Design
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> Well it's a simple and easy to understand answer. What kind of answer do
> you give a newbie? A long and concise feature list? Do you think a newbie
> knows what all of the features of a program are used for, let alone what
> features are really important? Don't you think Lightwave is used in so
> much television for good reason? Considering that most of the animation
> used in computer game development is crap, I wouldn't brag too much about
> a program being the dominant platform for game development. (Actually,
> 3D animation for games is crude in order for it to be played back on a
> regular PC at an acceptable frame rate.) Yes it's an easy answer. It's
> also a good one.........

I agree with you on the first part but you are way off on the game part. There
is a lot of skill that goes into game animation just like in TV/Movie animtion.
This would be like saying that since animation for TV is rendered at a lower
resolution than movies that LW is crap since it's only dominant is the TV
realm. BTW games tend to do full screen 30fps animation on a good computer now.
That is with at least 8-bit dithered colors. Game animation is just another
genre for 3D graphics, doesn't mean that it is any easier or "crappier" than
any other form of 3D graphics. If you have not seen nice 3D graphics in games
then you are buying the wrong games.

Jeff

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From: Jeff Jasper <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:41:06 -0400
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for Arts and Design
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> I love it when people say stuff like this - the correct answer is; "Okay,
> pay me and I'll show you what you want to see." Those animations were NOT
> done for free...

My point was that some packages(Alias, Softimage) Are often at times better
for doing high-end effects like in "The End" or whatever. IT is obvious why
studios pick this software over say MAX or Lightwave for doing these movies.
I have yet to see a Lightwave or 3DS animation with hair that comes even close
to what was in Jumanji. You would have to write some very nice custom plug-ins
for both packages. There is some software besides LW that does the job on certain
projects ya know. Until LW and MAX is being used like Alias and Softimage for
doing long realistic animation sequences in movies, then I will continue to
use Alias. 3D Studio, Lightwave, Electricimage, Infini-D,
Strata, Extreme 3D, Imagine, Truespace, etc. and can say I have always found
that Alias was much easier for doing most of the type of work I do. I continue
to use 3DS since that is what I can afford for myself and it does what I need
to a degree, but if I had the dough either Softimage or Alias would be my tool
of choice. Now that SGI/Alias/Wavefront are working on Maya...well lets just say
I see them holding the lead as a movie production tool. This is now to say that
other packages can't do these effects, I would just take a hell of a lot longer
and end up costing more money to do it otherwise. I like Lightwave a lot and
I like 3DS a lot, but I sure as hell don't think either of these programs is
the be all and end all of animtion, far from it. I don't think Alias or Softimage
are either, obviously since houses tend to use their own in-house tools just as
much as commercial software.

> LightWave is a tool, and in the right hands I've not seen anything it
> can't do. It's a cliche, but it's the ARTIST, not the tool. You hiring or
> just talking?

Yes Lightwave is a tool, but it is a tool that doesn't do the particle hair like
in Jumaji, nor does it do the procedural fat like in Jurassic Park. And I have
yet to see it do anything on the scale of Toy Story on the same budget in the same
amount of time. There are other tools out there to play with that do just as well
if not better in some cases. Lightwave has proven itself on TV, but has yet to
prove itself as a movie production tool like Alias or Softimage have. Maybe something
for the future, but I know talking to various people working at production houses
they tend to think that all commercial software is fairly limited, hence their
need for their own in-house tools. I'm just talking, I'm an animator not a movie
production company. Are you just talking or doing?

Jeff

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From: Vince Tourangeau <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LW Features?
Date: Mon, 22 Apr 1996 12:37:18 +0000
Organization: Carleton University
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Thanks all for the info.
    Vince

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From: "Michael R. Rose" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LW and rendering to .AVI files
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:20:14 -0400
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Brad Ruekberg wrote:

> You are not doing anything wrong. Basically it's just that Video for
> Windows playback SUCKS! It should only be used as a Poor quality
> preview. If you want good quality playback you will need to get a PAR
> or PVR perception card for your PC.
> JS

What about the Miro DC1plus and DC20? How do these rate against the
PAR and PVR? Anybody know? They both output 640x480 +overscan to video
and they don't require AV driver, although I know they recommend them.
No NT drivers though! :P
What are they thinking! :)

Thanks!

-Michael




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From: "Michael R. Rose" <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 at NAB
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 14:26:00 -0400
Organization: LI Net (Long Island Network)
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Jean-Eric Hénault wrote:
> The only thing that I am really disapointed to learn is that LW 5.0 will
> not offer any volumetric light, like 3DS Max or SoftImage.
>
> Volumetric light (or visible light beams) allow for example to see light
> beams peek through tree branches in fog, or see the light beams being
> interupted by an object in the path.

A plugin will be available over the summer that does volumetric lighting.

Take care!

-Michael R. Rose



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From: [e-mail] (Steve Tack)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Ron Thornton videos
Date: 21 Apr 1996 18:54:52 GMT
Organization: Rocky Mountain Internet Inc.
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In article <[e-mail]>, [e-mail] says...
-
-On Fri 19-Apr-1996  3:27a, wert wrote:
-w> Hi there,
-w> Does anyone know anything about the Ron Thornton modeling
-w> and surfacing videos? I'm in need of a some help with using
-w> lightwaves modeler, and since this guy's such a master at using
-w> it, I thought I'd give it a try. Is it worth the $50? And is
-w> it worth spending $50 more to get the surfacing video too?
-w> Thanks in advance for any help.
-w>                             Dan ([e-mail])

So where does one find these Ron Thornton videos?

Steve Tack


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From: [e-mail] (Mark Dunakin)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 Ships Tomorrow
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 96 10:48:34 PST
Organization: Tierra-Miga BBS
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On Sat 20-Apr-1996 12:01a, VirtualBri wrote:
V> >PLEASE GIVE ME A BREAK!!!.....Nothing in this world is free. I just sent
V> in my
V> >upgrade check for my Alpha machine and it WAS NOT FREE. It cost me
V> 495.00.
V> >...........md

V> So, Mark, what you are saying is that Alpha owners, who were sold
V> LightWave 4.0 at over $1995 and as much as $2500 during the Deskstation
V> Debacle, should have to pay $495 for an upgrade, while if I go out and buy
V> a copy right now, I can pay $1495, and that's fair?

V> I'm not an Alpha version owner, so I have nothing to gain, but know a
V> screwing when I see one.
V> --Brian

V> ======  http://members.aol.com/virtualbri/  ======
V> == Home of the rather large and mostly complete ==
V> =====  LightWave 3D Internet Resource Lists  =====
--------------------
First thing is, I never said it was fair. And after hearing all this talk, I
am planning on calling Newtek Monday just to verify all this. I bought my
Raptor 3 Dec Alpha back in January, and YES I paid that huge amount for LW.
I wanted the New version so I ordered it, but now `am wonderring if I am being
screwed? If so, I still want the new version, but it won't make me feel as
good knowing I paid too much for things......But then, I'm getting used to
MicroSoft and thier sceaming ways. I'm always told that if I have a question,
then why don't I just call MicroSoft for help........Ha Ha Ha Ha Ha....
Right!..........They charge you 35 bucks phone call or 200 dollars a
year.....................So as far as I can tell, everyone is THOROUGHLY
greedy........md

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From: [e-mail] (Steven Johansen)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Any LW5.0 betatesters with info?
Date: 21 Apr 1996 23:17:43 +1000
Organization: DIALix Services, Melbourne, Australia.
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    Well now that LW5 has been announced I presume that all NDA's
have run their course.
    Would any of the LW5 beta-testers who frequent this group care
to share their opinions of the new release.
    Not just "yeah it's great" but informative info regarding the
new features.(Please ;-)

    ie
        Are MetaBlobs simply a modelling function or are they
    animatable in Layout ?(eg. Blobs deform if moved closer to the
    sphere of influence of other Blobs)

        How realtime are OpenGl realtime previews in both
    Modeller and Layout, at what rez, at what colour depth?
    What hardware is necessary to support it (ie. your system)

    Arghh.... there's a million more questions, which i'm sure
    neither you nor I have time for :-)


    Steven
--
X

Article: 17473
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Subject: Re: 5.0 new features
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
X-Newsreader: BBX-UMB-Legacy
From: [e-mail] (Dwight Gruber)
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: Sat, 20 Apr 96 23:41:24 PST
Organization: NESBBX Bulletin Board System
Lines: 18

In <4l16tl$[e-mail]>,
[e-mail](William A. Mendez ) writes:

> SOURCE: Grue, a NewTek slave on IRC
>
>
> What's new in LightWave 3D 5.0
>

OK, so do we Amiga users get the benefit of all this, or are we going to
suck hind tit? Again?

                                    --DwightG



--
[e-mail]

Article: 17474
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From: Steph Greenberg <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: 21 Apr 1996 12:31:01 -0700
Organization: Primenet [phone]
Lines: 53
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Message-ID: <4le2dl$[e-mail]>
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Stranahan <[e-mail]> wrote:
: ------------
: I would like to see someone copy the effects produced in "The End", "The
: Boxer",
: or even "City of Lost Children". I find it very hard to believe that any
: PC
: animation software would be up to the task....
: ------------

: I love it when people say stuff like this - the correct answer is; "Okay,
: pay me and I'll show you what you want to see." Those animations were NOT
: done for free...

: LightWave is a tool, and in the right hands I've not seen anything it
: can't do. It's a cliche, but it's the ARTIST, not the tool. You hiring or
: just talking?

Well, since I actually use Alias for my work, I must say I wouldn't want
to try something like "The End" on the same software with 30 R10000
processors blazing. That hair stuff is evil, was able to deflect off an
invisible object, and there was alot of it. Not to mention all those
tubes and stuff. Supposedly it took hours just to change frames
in wireframe mode.

An evil project. Certainly if someone took that on, they would need
Newtek's full support to make it look good. Both the artist and Newtek
would learn alot on a project like that (Alias certainly did, which is
why it was a good investment for them to sink their money into).

If you didn't have Newtek's full support in developing the necessary
tools, I don't think even the most determined artist could pull it off.
And there's no satisfaction copying someone else's work either, since if
you do it well everyone will just say, "Yeah, it looks just like 'The
End'" which is to say, "So it's already been done". If you don't do it as
well they'll say, "Yeah it's ok, but 'The End' was done alot better".

Make something better up, that can be done with existing features in LW.
It'll be hard enough.

: Lee Stranahan


--
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Steph Greenberg              "Whenever I truly think something can't be
[e-mail]            done, that is when I redouble my efforts to
                  prove myself wrong."

Copyright 1996. All Rights Reserved. Permission granted for non-commercial
electronic republication only, such as Usenet and Email, and
non-commercial educational purposes such as charge free WWW pages.
Express permission is required for any other use. When in doubt, ask.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Article: 17475
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 20:36:50 GMT
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On 4/20/96 11:48PM, in message <[e-mail]>, Jeff Jasper
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> What about Real 3D? It does a lot more, learn and can be had for cheaper than
> Lightwave. Not saying I would pick it over Lightwave, but it has more features
> than just about any other PC, Mac, Amiga, and even some SGI programs.
>
> Jeff

Does it do things you actually need, or does it just have a longer  list of
features?  A Porsche and a Lexus will get you to the same place at the same
time but they both have different features.
--
                      -=Fred=-


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From: Pier Marton <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: SavingLWClipProblem
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 15:30:28 -0400
Organization: Art, Carnegie Mellon, Pittsburgh, PA
Lines: 10
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: po8.andrew.cmu.edu

I don't know what is the problem. I have loaded the 4.1B plug-in Clip
Save file, and I am doing everything I should and I cannot save a
Lightwave file (Flyer Clip) to my flyer drive (Ham-save works fine).
Snoopdos tells me : "Lightwave Open LW-lrefs Read Fail". I have reloaded
the software three times to no avail. Do I have a LW-lrefs file missing
somewhere.
I am using a 2000 with an 030/40 GVP combo force. I also have an
Emplant, and Cross Mac installed.
Any ideas? Thanks,
Pier

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 20:42:41 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
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On 4/20/96 11:35AM, in message <[e-mail]>, Tim Krego
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> On Sat, 20 Apr 96 08:30:23 GMT, [e-mail] wrote:
> >> Reviewing a beta copy of MAX that's dated "January 18" is like Car and
> >> Driver reviewing an automobile by looking at a chassis, sans engine and
> >> body panels.
>
> >Or like people comparing Max to Lightwave 4.
>
> Considering LW 5.0 was just shown for the first time this week most of
> us didn't have any info on it. Feel free to compare LW 5.0 to MAX.
>
> Now we get to gripe about comparing a shipping program (MAX) to a
> non-shipping program (LW 5.0). Considering NewTek's track record...
> You've got 4-6 weeks to wait.

Max isn't shipping yet.  They wanted it to announce shipping at NAB but, alas,
we learned that even non-NewTek programs are having their problems.  Remember,
Autodesk is far worse when it comes to missing deadlines than NewTek.  For
example, Animator Studio (which I use and enjoy) was delayed for over 8 months!
--
                      -=Fred=-



Article: 17478
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From: [e-mail] (Mark Dunakin)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Date: 21 Apr 96 12:02:44 PST
Organization: Tierra-Miga BBS
Lines: 15

As far as mulptiple cameras go, I fell in love with it using Strata. At first
it seemed wierd, but then I wonderred how I ever got along without it. So when
I bought LW and discovered that it only had one, I couldn't beleave it and I
kept trying to find where you get two cameras from. Untill I finally came to
realise that it had no such thing....:( But of course you can always do
workarounds that work just fine, but it would of been nice to havbe such a
thing.....And for those who can't see an use, I can think of one right off
that is vital. Whenever you want to check out a different "rendered" view, you
have to move the camera and then "make" a key frame for it. Then when you
discover that it wasn't the shot you wanted, you have to go and creat a
different key frame and do this for all the different shots that you want
untill you find the ones you like. Sure thats not that bad except that now you
have to go back and deleate all the other ones that you decided you don't want
anymore. And of course this is still workarounds  and it just makes more work
for you to deal with and takes away from creativeness.....md

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 at NAB
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 20:47:47 GMT
Organization: Earthlink Network, Inc.
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On 4/20/96 11:35AM, in message <[e-mail]>, Tim Krego
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> All the LW guys get off saying 3DSR4 doesn't come with lensflares and
> bones. We have to purchase them seperately and they blow away the LW
> versions. LW 5.0 still misses some of the features in LenZFX Inferno
> 2.1 and Bones Pro 1.5 for 3DSR4. The MAX versions will be shipping in
> 2-3 months and will probably be a jump up from the 3DSR4 versions.
>
>

The thing is though that if you spend the equivalent amount of money on
Lightwave and plugins that you'd spend on JUST MAX or 3DS R4 you'd have a
package that runs quite a few rings around MAX/3DS and even a ring or two
around Alias and SoftImage.  Yes, there still may be a few differences
(especially between Alias and SI), but it would be a pretty unbeatable package
nonetheless.
--
                      -=Fred=-


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From: [e-mail] (Stephen Maeder)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.apps.photoshop,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win3x,comp.os.ms-windows.apps.utilities.win95,alt.2600,alt.26
Subject: HTTP://www.loop.com/~maeder/
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 19:44:19 GMT
Organization: The Loop
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
NNTP-Posting-Host: pma87.loop.com
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Hi everyone!  I just made some improvements to the ease of use of my
web page, it makes use of Netscape tables to put a toolbar up at the
top right of every page, with a border around the button where you
are.  And, like always, there is some fun JavaScript, Links, Animation
Pix, etc.  I hope you all like it as much as I enjoyed making it!


Later,

Stephen Maeder
http://www.loop.com/~maeder/

Article: 17481
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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 20:54:02 GMT
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On 4/20/96 11:49AM, in message <[e-mail]>, Tim Krego
<[e-mail]> wrote:

>
> >>Seamless Plugin Architecture    Nope
> >What is "seamless" besides a marketing ploy?  When I use a plug-in, I pull
> >up the menu and use it.  What s not seamless about that?
>
> Not marketing BS. The plugins in LW mostly jump you out of the
> program. In Fori's PowerView can't be open and use the Modeler at the
> same time. This may be a bad example now that LW 5.0 has OpenGL, but
> other plugins work in a similar way. Has NewTek expanded the LW 5.0
> architecture? I haven't seen it yet.
>

I have seen (I think) EVERY single plugin for LW and there are only three that
are what you'd call "not seamless".  Two of them are particle systems (and this
may be remedied), and one was Fori's Powerviewer, which has now been
incorporated into modeler itself.

--
                      -=Fred=-


Article: 17482
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From: Ace Miles <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LW 5.0 at NAB
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 12:53:12 -0700
Organization: got net?
Lines: 42
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
References: <[e-mail]> <[e-mail]>
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X-Mailer: Mozilla 2.0 (Win95; I)

Bruce Branit wrote:

> There are two ways 5.0 makes this easier.
>
> First with MetaNURBS you have MUCH more control over how you may build your 'spread eagle'
> original figure.
> With Muscle Flexing and Joint Compensation you can set more precise influence regions for
> bones with out having to add more bones to compensate for the way the shoulder or elbow
> used to collapse. Therefore you can keep the ribs out of the influence areas more easily.
>
> The Second way uses a plug-in that, I believe, is being called MetaMation? Here's what it
> lets you do:
>      Say you've got your rough, quad-polygon cube man in Modeler. What you want to do is
> metaform him a few times and get him in to three-point polys so he'll render right, right?
> What if you could load the original, low-poly count object into LightWave. It would be
> easier to add bones or set of morph targets of this frame object, but it would render like
> crap. MetaMation, lets you load 3 or 4 point poly objects into layout, animate with this,
> then, lightwave (not Modeler) will metaform the simple object in its current position, to
> be used only for render.
>
> _________________________________
> Bruce Branit -- FryeAllen


I just uploaded an avi of a "toon glove" to ftp.newtek.com (incoming).
The file is Glovetst.zip and includes an image of the low poly oject as
well.
I used bones with METAMATION as Bruce described above.

The control of the bones is much greater since you have fewer points to
deal with.
I also used the muscle flexing and joint compression, which makes bones
much easier to use.

The object was originally modeled with METANURBS.

-Ace

 Ace Miles * Senior Animator * Atari Games/Williams Entertainment
       [e-mail] (work)  or   [e-mail] (home)
     My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.
      Although legally they own everything I come up with.

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 21:12:51 GMT
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On 4/21/96 9:50AM, in message <[e-mail]>, Jeff Jasper
<[e-mail]> wrote:

> > Well it's a simple and easy to understand answer. What kind of answer do
> > you give a newbie? A long and concise feature list? Do you think a newbie
> > knows what all of the features of a program are used for, let alone what
> > features are really important? Don't you think Lightwave is used in so
> > much television for good reason? Considering that most of the animation
> > used in computer game development is crap, I wouldn't brag too much about
> > a program being the dominant platform for game development. (Actually,
> > 3D animation for games is crude in order for it to be played back on a
> > regular PC at an acceptable frame rate.) Yes it's an easy answer. It's
> > also a good one.........
>
> I agree with you on the first part but you are way off on the game part.
> There is a lot of skill that goes into game animation just like in TV/Movie
> animtion. This would be like saying that since animation for TV is rendered
> at a lower resolution than movies that LW is crap since it's only dominant is
> the TV realm. BTW games tend to do full screen 30fps animation on a good
> computer now.  That is with at least 8-bit dithered colors. Game animation is
> just another genre for 3D graphics, doesn't mean that it is any easier or
> "crappier" than any other form of 3D graphics. If you have not seen nice 3D
> graphics in games then you are buying the wrong games.
>
> Jeff

It DOES mean it's easier and crappier for the very fact that it is low color,
low res.  I have done games, TV, and film, and I can tell you that the
expectations are MUCH higher in film.  Would the Donkey Kong Country animation
hold up in a feature?  Does it look real?  Is it trying to?  No, of course not.
Would they liked to have done a photoreal version?  Probably--that would be
amazing.  However, it did  it would still be in production.  Has there been ANY
game with film quality effects? No, they are all rendered at a much lower color
depth and resolution.  It's not  just a  matter of re-rendering though.  To go
to film you'd have to re-model and re-texture because of the new image quality.
 For example, I have seen the Mechwarrior 2 footage on the big screen, and what
looked really cool and good on my monitor looks fake and cheap on the big
screen.

The expectations for games and film/TV are different.  Games don't go for a
true photoreal look for the simple reason that the time/budgets couldn't handle
it.  Games are easier.  Period.  The only thing that is intriguing about game
work is that people are sitting there looking at your work for a long, long
time, as opposed to a fleeting moment on a film or TV screen.  To me, that's
what made working on the games fun.  If anyone has the issue of American
Cinematographer with Diabolique on the cover (April I think) there's an article
on one of the games I worked on and a photo of one of the interiors (all
Lightwave).  Unfortunately it's not a very exciting shot.
--
                      -=Fred=-


Article: 17484
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From: [e-mail] (H Doan)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Amiga users?
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 96 20:06:57 GMT
Organization: Virtual Works
Lines: 10
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In article <[e-mail]>, Darren Metcalfe <[e-mail]> wrote:

>I'd love to simplify my life but until I can replace ADPro, DPaint,
>ImageFX, Debabelizer and AfterEffects on WindowsNT, the Amiga and Mac stay
>right where they are and get the occasional Processor/Ram/HD upgrade.
>

When did they ever make Debabelizer for NT????? I only have it for the MAC

--HD

Article: 17485
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From: Ace Miles <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 13:10:25 -0700
Organization: got net?
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>
> ***************This is not a Flame********************

> > Questions and corrections:

> > >Volumetric Lights/Shadows      Nope
> > NewTek said there would be a plug-in by summer.
> Aparently true.and supposedly better than max!?

This is EXTREMELY slow in Max :(
And is already being overused and abused. Kinda like lesflares.



> > >Space Warps  Nope
> > What are Space Warps?  I could be wrong, but they just looked like
> > animatible displacement maps to me.
> Hmm..think it`s a bit more than that...

EFFECTORS in LW can be used to do "space warps".
In the little amount of time I have spent playing with both, I would say
that Effectors seem more flexible, IMOHO.

> > Not trying to start a flame war, just interested in legitimate advantages
> > of MAX, like its keyframe control,  over marketing BS.
> > --Brian.

--
 Ace Miles * Senior Animator * Atari Games/Williams Entertainment
       [e-mail] (work)  or   [e-mail] (home)
     My opinions are not necessarily those of my employer.
      Although legally they own everything I come up with.

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From: [e-mail] (RazorKiD3)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Help?!?
Date: 21 Apr 1996 16:46:20 -0400
Organization: America Online, Inc. (1-800-827-6364)
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Can anyone help me with this project Im working on?
Im want to make an animation of a chapagne bottle cork poping off and
champagne coming out like when you shake up a champagne bottle and open
it... If anyone could help it work be GREAT!
Thanx

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From: [e-mail] (Dave Thomas)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: NAB Report is now online
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:08:53 GMT
Organization: Best Internet Communications
Lines: 11
Message-ID: <4le8b0$[e-mail]>
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My full NAB report is now available on my web site. While you're
there, be sure to check out some of the other stuff that's available.
Just remember that the pages are still under construction, and there's
not a lot of graphics yet. Have fun!


DT - MPix
"Just think of all the money you'll make down the road" - actual ex-employer quote
[e-mail]
http://www.best.com/~dthomas/


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From: [e-mail] (Butch Newton)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 at NAB
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:32:39 GMT
Organization: Renderzone
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On Sat, 20 Apr 1996 19:31:22 -0400, Bryant Reif
<[e-mail]> wrote:
>> The only thing that I am really disapointed to learn is that LW 5.0 will
>> not offer any volumetric light, like 3DS Max or SoftImage.
>
>Rumor is that a VL plug-in will be available this summer.  Let's hope that all
>the 3DS MAX users haven't rendered the effect tacky by then. ;)

Like you guys have driven lensflares into the ground! :)

Lensflare-orama!

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From: [e-mail] (Butch Newton)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: Lightwave for Mac
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:32:56 GMT
Organization: Renderzone
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On Sat, 20 Apr 1996 20:55:40 GMT, [e-mail] (Tony
Schreiner) wrote:
>If NewTek plays everything right, Lightwave has a spot at becoming THE
>standard 3-D rendering program.  Lightwave is feature packed and has a
>huge advantage of being available on so many platforms.

It will be tough to catch 3DS. They are THE standard program when it
comes to PC's. They also have the largest share of the WHOLE 3D market
at 55%.

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From: [e-mail] (Butch Newton)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:38:10 GMT
Organization: Renderzone
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On 20 Apr 1996 19:43:46 -0400, [e-mail] (MarcMylar) wrote:
>>You can save 32 bit Targa images using the HIIP loaders/savers.

>Does this actually work?  I've tried to use these Targas, but can never
>get the alpha channel.  I had to work around this using Elastic Reality.

What!? You want the features and you also want them to work? :)

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From: [e-mail] (Butch Newton)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:43:29 GMT
Organization: Renderzone
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On 20 Apr 1996 17:25:49 GMT, [e-mail](William Teegarden)
wrote:
>>> >Volumetric Lights/Shadows      Nope
>>> NewTek said there would be a plug-in by summer.
>>Aparently true.and supposedly better than max!?
>
>Better in the sense that they're true volumes, rather than a post
>process effect.  True volumes requier raytracing, which does take
>longer to render, but will let you do more than just volume lights,
>like true fog for example, clouds of dust, fire, etc. A good example of
>a true volume is the ability to cast a shadow "on" the volume itself
>from a different light source, rather than the post process effect that
>only computes volume shadows from the source of light creating the
>volume.

There were two IPAS's for 3DSR4 called Vapor and Flame that were
volumetric. The problem was that they were slow. I've seen what MAX
can do with VL and it works real well and is fast.

A MAX plugin called Combustion does true fog, dust, fire and is free.
Having it done with raytracing may be more accurate, but wouldn't it
be to slow to use for production work?

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From: Jeff Jasper <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:49:04 -0400
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for Arts and Design
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> > What about Real 3D? It does a lot more, learn and can be had for cheaper than
> > Lightwave. Not saying I would pick it over Lightwave, but it has more features
> > than just about any other PC, Mac, Amiga, and even some SGI programs.
> >
> > Jeff
>
> Does it do things you actually need, or does it just have a longer  list of
> features?  A Porsche and a Lexus will get you to the same place at the same
> time but they both have different features.

Many different forms of modeling, solids, splines, polys, not sure if they added NURBS
yet like they were supposed to. It also has shrink wrapping for doing cloths that flow
over the body and that moves with the body like it should and the wind blows. Full
particle generator, physics such as collision detection, gravity, wind, etc. Like Imagine
Real3D kills itself with interface and ease of use as well as being a very small company.
The features are nice and useful like when a person walks on sand they leave footprints,
when a car moves the weels rotate like they should and turn together, but like Imagine
a feature list doesn't make the program #1. If they could put their features in a easy
to use interface, get some animators helping them style the program it could easily be a
top seller, same goes for Imagine. The program has way too many features to list here,
but they are listed on their web page. I don't use the program, nor will I probably use
it anytime soon. I have found the tools I like (Alias, MAX, EIAS, and yes Lightwave). I
just wanted to point out to the guy I was replying to that LW isn't the cheapest program
with the most features.

Jeff

Article: 17493
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From: [e-mail] (Andrew Barnett)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: AVI Editor?
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 21:44:57 GMT
Organization: CrAzY Bee Productions
Lines: 12
Message-ID: <[e-mail]>
Reply-To: [e-mail] (Andrew Barnett)
NNTP-Posting-Host: crazybe.demon.co.uk
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Hi All,
Is there a program on PC to edit .avi file, a program like PSP,
sharewave or commerical.....

Thanks...
*     ("`-/")_.-'"``-._       .--------------------------.    *
  *    . . `; -._    )-;-,_`) |      Andrew Barnett      | *
*  *  (v_,)'  _  )`-.\  ``-'  | [e-mail] |    *
     _.- _..-_/ / ((.'        `--------------------------'  *
*  ((,.-'   ((,/.................CrAzY Bee Productions.........


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From: Jeff Jasper <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 17:53:32 -0400
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> Max isn't shipping yet.  They wanted it to announce shipping at NAB but, alas,
> we learned that even non-NewTek programs are having their problems.  Remember,
> Autodesk is far worse when it comes to missing deadlines than NewTek.  For
> example, Animator Studio (which I use and enjoy) was delayed for over 8 months!
> --
>                       -=Fred=-

MAX started shipping on the 18th which is in the time frame that they have been
saying for months. From what I hear the only thing holding back NewTek from
shipping is docs and packaging, this may or may not be true, but I think 5.0 is
ready to go also. I would say the longest you would have to wait would be 4 weeks,
or maybe 6 if things got really crazy.

Jeff

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: 21 Apr 1996 22:03:29 GMT
Organization: AccessOne
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NNTP-Posting-Host: jeric.accessone.com
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>   Glenn Chung <[e-mail]> writes:
    One thing:

>  were much better than the color-shaded only views generated by LW. Plus,
>  LW and OpenGL only support eight lights at a time in the shaded view -
>  not a problem for some, but a definite limit for us.

    How many lights do you normally use?


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From: Jeff Jasper <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.animation,comp.graphics.apps.lightwave,comp.graphics.packages.3dstudio
Subject: Re: MAX or Lightwave? How about some MAX here folks.
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 18:06:13 -0400
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> It DOES mean it's easier and crappier for the very fact that it is low color,
> low res.  I have done games, TV, and film, and I can tell you that the
> expectations are MUCH higher in film.  Would the Donkey Kong Country animation
> hold up in a feature?  Does it look real?  Is it trying to?  No, of course not.
> Would they liked to have done a photoreal version?  Probably--that would be
> amazing.  However, it did  it would still be in production.  Has there been ANY
> game with film quality effects? No, they are all rendered at a much lower color
> depth and resolution.  It's not  just a  matter of re-rendering though.  To go
> to film you'd have to re-model and re-texture because of the new image quality.
>  For example, I have seen the Mechwarrior 2 footage on the big screen, and what
> looked really cool and good on my monitor looks fake and cheap on the big
> screen.

I would say it's "crappier" id does everything it's supposed to. It is rendered
for a computer monitor not a big screen. They are doing compositing with live
footage, photorealistic environments, etc. Not something that you can just
sleepwalk through. Plus they are often doing up to or more than an hour of
animation compaired to the minutes you see in many movies. I think game such as
7th guest,11th hour, Myst really pull the viewer into the fantasy of the game. It
is the same as animation done for TV. You blow it up onto a big screen and it
looses quality because that is not the medium it was intended for. Does that make
it crappy or easy, no.

> The expectations for games and film/TV are different.  Games don't go for a
> true photoreal look for the simple reason that the time/budgets couldn't handle
> it.  Games are easier.  Period.  The only thing that is intriguing about game
> work is that people are sitting there looking at your work for a long, long
> time, as opposed to a fleeting moment on a film or TV screen.  To me, that's
> what made working on the games fun.  If anyone has the issue of American
> Cinematographer with Diabolique on the cover (April I think) there's an article
> on one of the games I worked on and a photo of one of the interiors (all
> Lightwave).  Unfortunately it's not a very exciting shot.
> --
>                       -=Fred=-

I agree, but just because they are different mediums of animtion doesn't make one
better than the other. I personally have no interest in doing game animation, but
I sure don't look down on it as a lesser form of art.

Jeff

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From: [e-mail](William Teegarden)
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: 21 Apr 1996 18:50:17 GMT
Organization: Netcom
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In <4lbran$[e-mail]> [e-mail] (InstntGuts)
writes:
>
><Better in the sense that they're true volumes, rather than a post
>process effect.  True volumes requier raytracing, which does take
>longer to render, but will let you do more than just volume lights,
>like true fog for example, clouds of dust, fire, etc. A good example
of
>a true volume is the ability to cast a shadow "on" the volume itself
>from a different light source, rather than the post process effect
that
>only computes volume shadows from the source of light creating the
>volume.>
>
>FWIW, 3D Studio MAX's volumetric fog and light effects can affect
other
>volumes in the scene. BTW, Rolf Berteig, one of the MAX programmers,
just
>uploaded a free MAX plug-in called Combustion, which allows you to
create
>spherical volumes to produce localized fog, flame effects, and a
really
>cool, Alias-style explosion. (The amazing thing too is, he wrote the
>plug-in in one day!) It's available on the new Kinetix web site
>(www.ktx.com).
>
>BTW, we *still* haven't seen the seaQuest uploaded anywhere... <g>
>
>-- Jon


Believe it or not, I don't have a copy of the seaQuest! :)

GT


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From: Jeff Jasper <[e-mail]>
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: LightWave 5.0 at NAB
Date: Sun, 21 Apr 1996 18:12:16 -0400
Organization: Advanced Computing Center for Arts and Design
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> The thing is though that if you spend the equivalent amount of money on
> Lightwave and plugins that you'd spend on JUST MAX or 3DS R4 you'd have a
> package that runs quite a few rings around MAX/3DS and even a ring or two
> around Alias and SoftImage.  Yes, there still may be a few differences
> (especially between Alias and SI), but it would be a pretty unbeatable package
> nonetheless.
> --
>                       -=Fred=-

I wouldn't say run rings around any of them, but be competitive. MAX still has
fetures that are not in LW as LW has features that are not in MAX and Alias and
Softimage are the same. The nice thing about MAX is that is just started shipping
a few days ago and there are already a heap of plug-ins for it. I just think the
PC markey has really caught up to the SGI market. Of course I have yet to see
Maya. That could slant things quite a bit when it ships.

Jeff

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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: My take on NAB: 3DS MAX vs. LW 5.0
Date: 21 Apr 1996 22:07:18 GMT
Organization: AccessOne
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>   [e-mail] (VirtualBri) writes:
>  Questions and corrections:
>
>  >Interactive Texture Placement  Nope
>  >UV Mapping                     Nope
>  Fori s Power Texture, a plug-in shown on the floor allows interactive
>  texture placement and UV Mapping
>
>  >Internal Alpha Channel         Nope, only external
>  I m not sure what this is.  Could someone explain this one?

    Lightwave surfaces now have alpha channels attached to them: I'm not
quite sure of their use yet.

>
>  >Animatable Booleans            Nope
>  What would you use this for that a morph wouldn t do?

    Also, this is not correct, since you can do a rail boolean subtract.
That seems animated to me.


>
>  >Animatable Textures            Nope
>  Many people are animating textures right now, and with alpha channels
>  between multiple textures you can animate those as well.


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From: [e-mail]
Newsgroups: comp.graphics.apps.lightwave
Subject: Re: NAB Announcement #2
Date: 21 Apr 1996 22:09:17 GMT
Organization: AccessOne
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>   [e-mail] (Walter (Jay) Turberville ) writes:

>  Well golly gosh.  Its for real!!!  Well NewTek did manage to keep this under
>  their hats pretty darn well.


    You have NO idea how hard it was to get my lips zipped!

>
>
>  Walter (Jay) Turberville         |[e-mail]  [e-mail]

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